Interview with Yvette Poire-Gaubert and
Nicolas Duchamp
Yvette Poire-Gaubert is born in 1918 in France. She
get married with Alain Poiré who's mother spoused Philippe
Gaubert when they were 17 years old.
ND: Hello, Yvette Poire-Gaubert and thank you for
opening the door to your memories of not only a great flutist, but
also a great artist and great man, Philippe Gaubert. How did you
come to be close to him?
YP: I knew Philippe Gaubert in 1932 when I was 14
and Alain Poire, my future husband was 16. Philippe Gaubert had
remarried Madeleine, Alain’s mother; Philippe Gaubert raised
and loved him as if he were his own. We were considered a couple to
be engaged at a later time, and I was received with open arms into
his family. They called us the little
Gauberts!
ND: You wrote a book not long ago dedicated to
Philippe Gaubert. Can you tell us a little about
it?
YP: I had wanted to write this book for 25 years
and then, I gave myself one year to write it but 25 passed before
it was done!...the time of a rich and tumultuous life. I had
married Alain Poire who was producing about 6 films a year. At the
time of Madeleine’s death, I inherited numerous documents
which, of course, were about his flute. There was a great sorting
of his records at the house and thanks to that and my memories, I
was able to write my book.
ND: Philippe Gaubert’s career is
amazing.
YP: Yes! It’s really a fairy tale. His
professional life was a success thanks to a lot of hard work
combined with his many talents and extraordinary gifts. His start
is really worthy of a fiction story. First, we have to talk a bit
about his father, Baptiste Gaubert, who must have had a strong
personality himself: coming from a fairly poor peasant family
around Cahors, an uneducated man, he had an innate gift for music
that he, himself, was unable to develop. At the age of 12, instead
of bringing back the money he made from selling the products they
had raised on the farm, he brought back a violin! His parents
immediately broke it over his back.
Refusing to work the land, he
opened a shoe-repair shop on Brives St., in Cahors, which would
later become Philippe Gaubert St. As soon as they could walk, he
offered his two sons a small violin and a flute. And a short time
later in a sprit of total recklessness, he exclaimed, “I do
not want my sons to become cobblers, they’ll be musicians and
so we’ll go to Paris.” His second son Lucien, made a
living doing copies and transcipts.
The real miracle was Philippe
Gaubert! Philippe Gaubert’s father died when he was barely 13
years old, leaving them with nothing. It was at that time Philippe
Gaubert, totally self-taught, was hired to play the violin in a
little movie theater in the Ternes district of Paris in order to
bring home enough to feed his family. Philippe’s mother told
me that she would go to wait for her little boy every evening so
that he wouldn’t have to come home alone in the
dark.
ND: How did he become a
flutist?
YP: That is where the fairy tale takes on new
meaning. One day, when Philippe Gaubert was playing the traversiere
flute near a window, all along having had no instructor,
Simon-Jules Taffanel, a Bordelais flutist and lutist, who had
recently played in Paris and was the father of the great Taffanel,
was listening and immediately recognized Philippe Gaubert’s
extraordinary potential.
He suggested to his mother
that he give him lessons and that Philippe make a career as a
musician. After his mother made him aware that he had to provide
for them, he landed him a position as back up violinist at the
Opera de Paris.
He then discovers a child with
a great predisposition for the flute and a relentless taste for
work. One day, he said to his son Paul, “I would like to have
you listen to one of my exceptional students.” And so, Paul
Taffanel says to his father, “O.K., he’s no longer your
student, he’s mine.”
At that moment, Simon-Jules
Taffanel had to remind Dorus who, upon hearing him play in
Bordeaux, had asked his father to take him in his class in
Paris.
ND: Who was Paul Taffanel at the end of the
19th Century?
YP: Paul was an exceptional flutist renowned all
over Europe. He was a professor at the Conservatory of Paris,
Madrid St. He took Philippe Gaubert in his class at the
Conservatory where he was awarded his first prize as flutist, in
1894, at the age of 15.
“Parrain”
(everyone in the family called Philippe “Parrain”)
always felt strong feelings and gratitude towards “his
master.”
He loved to say that he owed
him everything because he always looked out for his favorite
student. When he was an accomplished artist, he named him first
flute at the Opera. He was 16 years old at the
time.Taffanel
highly recommended him saying that he played better than he
did.
To earn a living, Philippe
also played in churches. He was telling us that one day there was
“cold meat,” as the artist say when speaking of a
burial; when he was placing his flute in preparation to play with
all his heart, the organist quietly said to him, “don’t
strain yourself.” Philippe couldn’t play a single note
because he was laughing so hard. As they were leaving, someone
remarked “it’s too bad that the organ completely
drowned out the flute!”
ND: Let’s get back to his musical
career…
YP: It was far-reaching and wide ranged. He was an
inveterate worker, he composed every night. In 1905, he won second
prize of Rome, which was sometimes attributed to his teachers, like
Pierne or Faure, but journalist say anything. He took lessons in
composing but I would be tempted to say that he was more
self-taught as a composer, as with everything he took
up.
It was 1908 that he was named
professor of the flute at the Conservatory of Paris where he had,
among others, students like his favorite, Marcel
Moyse.
ND: Was Philippe Gaubert conducting during that
time?
YP: Of course! It was in 1904 that he appeared on
the scene as second conductor of the Societe des Concerts du
Conservatoire at the death of Andre Messager, who had founded that
brilliant phalanx known throughout Europe. Philippe told me that
Taffanel had told him that it would be he, Philippe, who would
conduct the Orchestre du Conservatoire. He replied that he
didn’t know how to conduct even though he had taken a few
courses and Taffanel said to him: “that doesn’t
matter!” He gave him some advice, I don’t know what,
while waving the baton in a joking manner and then he was off! The
first time that Philippe Gaubert conducted the orchestra, the
musicians stood up and applauded. It was in 1913 that he
collaborated with Paul Taffanel on the writing of 17 DAILY FLUTE
EXERCISES.
ND: What became of him in 1914, when the war with
the Germans started?
YP: Well, he took off boldly in the infantry. He
was very patriotic. At the end of 1917, he had a serious lung
infection, was discharged and got over it with barely any bed rest.
He was a hardy, robust guy, nothing could stop him. He wanted to go
back to the war because it hadn’t ended, but a discharge is a
discharge and the government wasn’t budging an
inch.
ND: Did he play the traversiere flute after rhe
war?
YP: He performed his SONATE POUR FLUTE in 1918 and
they talked about it in the press “the great qualities of
this sensitive musician.” He was named first conductor of the
Societe des Conservatoires in 1919. He directed a great deal during
that period and in 1922, he interpreted his MADRIGAL as well as two
of J.S. Bach’s pieces.
Unfortunately, due to lip
problems, he stopped the flute at his peak. Too short a career to
the dismay of the flute world, and for a long time still expressed
their distress about it. They spoke repeatedly of their regrets,
referring to his absolutely dazzling virtuosity and in such
personal tones that you could never forget it. When he was
caricaturized, he was always shown with a
flute.
He always loved the
traversiere flute and my husband Alain told me that before going to
fulfill his heavy workload everyday, he sometimes played a little
in the morning.
There is, however a trace of
Philippe the flutist which was found in 1987 by way of facsimile
that states that he participated in a concert, playing LES CHANSONS
MADECASSES, accompanied by Ravel himself at the piano at the Ravel
Festival, Aug. 24, 1930 at the Hotel du Palais,
Biarritz.
ND: So, it was in 1930 that Philippe Gaubert was
heard playing the flute for the last time in
public?
YP: As far as I know, there is a final trace at a
gala concert in 1930 to benefit the Philharmonic Society at which
he played one of his sonatas for flute and piano. The famous critic
and musician Louis Aubert wrote in the newspaper after the
concert:
“This
season brings ongoing and renewed evidence of a hundred different
aspects of the phenomenal work of this musician…well, what
we don’t forget but are too rarely reminded of is:
unparalleled talent whose flute sound is such that you would not be
able to imagine the quality of the velvety texture before having
caressed it. Do people know that it was Philippe Gaubert himself
who developed the best of our flutist? But as talented as his
disciples were, it’s a new marvel each time the charmer
returns to his first loves.”
ND: The termination of his public appearances as
flutists didn’t leave him with too little to
do…
YP: Never, quite the opposite. In 1930, he was
appointed Conductor of music at the Opera de Paris; in fact, he
already was conductor, but then it was officially confirmed. He
then left his flute teaching position at the Conservatoire de
Paris, which he regretted, but he conducted a tremendous amount for
Jacques Rouche at I’Opera, which kept him very busy,
naturally.
ND: Who was Jacques
Rouche?
YP: He was the administrator of the Opera de Paris
in the 1930’s. It’s been said that I didn’t like
Rouche: that’s not exactly true. What I don’t like is
the fact that the bold programming choices of the Opera de Paris
were attributed to Rouche. He was foremost, the true patron, which
is to his credit. He had made a huge fortune selling popular
perfumes, that were inexpensive and of high quality. You can say
that the whole Opera de Paris was his “toy.” He paid
very little, very poorly, but he paid for everything. The real
music conductor of the Opera de Paris, the one who made the really
bold programming choices was Philippe
Gaubert.
ND: Was Philippe Gaubert decently remunerated for
the prestigious position that he held?
YP: At the Opera, I don’t know, it would
have been easy to know by approaching the Opera de Paris but it
happens that the great company did not save anything from that
period, not even treasures displaying the greatest artists of the
time. But, to give an idea of the remuneration for musicians of
that period, Philippe Gaubert earned 2000f per year for conducting
the orchestra of the Conservatory 3 times per week, while my
husband, starting at 20 years old at the Havas agency, earned 3000f
per month. But Philippe didn’t worry much about it because he
was very fond of that company and loved music much more than
money.
Sometimes the great originals,
like Loie Fuller or even Rubenstein, wanted him to conduct their
shows. He had dared to charge them 50,000f and had shared that
godsend with all his musicians.
ND: Few people today have a real knowledge of
Philippe Gaubert’s immense career and multitude of
activities; was “his company,” the Opera de Paris, one
of the many stops on your canvassing trip to bring awareness of the
musical memory of Philippe Gaubert to the
public?
YP: No. I offered the Opera de Paris to do a
window, at my expense, with the bust of Philippe Gaubert which the
famous artist Landowsky (brother of the still unknown musician) had
sculpted.
I wanted to give them a flute
of Philippe’s, his baton and other documents in honor of his
memory; unfortunately, I didn’t hear a word from them. They
didn’t have anything to do with it! I became aware that there
is no museum of the Opera, it’s a tall tale. There are three
little things kept in a nice hall and the rest, they threw out. As
a result, I gave those things to the Philippe Gaubert School of
Music in Cahors. The headmaster and the mayor themselves were
present to remind the young musician apprentices who Paul Gaubert
was.
ND: You were speaking of the bold programming at
the Opera de Paris…
YP: Jacques Rouche relied on a traditional public,
but it’s necessary to salute his courage for having allowed
Philippe Gaubert to put on works that were far from the standard
proprieties. Philippe Gaubert renewed the opera public, rejuvenated
it with the constant concern for playing French music of his time
that wasn’t played enough. All the French composers, Philippe
Gaubert and other important ones of that era, were put through a
sort of purgatory before being played. He had to fight to make our
music known to us. Philippe Gaubert carried that creativity, not
only French, however, everywhere but mainly in Europe. Fortunately,
he was at the Opera de Paris to create works like Elektra by
Strauss, or King Oedipus by Enesco; there was just a s much
Milhaud, Dukas, Debussy, Ravel, Honnegar, and I forget who
else…The audience, a little disconcerted, might however end
up with Bubuss.
ND: Bubuss?
YP: Yes, Bubuss! Well… Henry Busser. Bubuss
took charge of conducting the works which were more accepted by the
Opera audience.
ND: I thought it was understood, nevertheless,
that the relationship between Gaubert and Rouche was a stormy
one?
YP: No, not at all! Rouche knew Gaubert’s
nature and didn’t hold the detailed letter of resignation he
received from him every day against him. As soon as he would come
back, “Parrain” thundered forth with, “I’m
going to fling my resignation at Rouche,” or even
“I’m going to tell him that he’s in charge of his
cologne and he doesn’t know anything about
music!”
ND: He was never at a loss for words! What would
you say about his personality?
YP: He always said what he thought and it never
seemed to hurt him. He said to hell with ministers when he wanted
to; he hated society women because in his time it was already
fashionable to dislike French music and that made
“Parrain” crazy mad! They only applauded German music,
with Wagner or Beethoven, while my father-in-law did not spit on
it, it was very annoying for him being the great defender of his
own country. I remember one day when we were at the house of the
Ministere de Beaux-arts, he took aside his wife saying, “Like
all society women, you don’t know anything about it, you
might appreciate your country’s music.” He said what he
thought in all situations and he hated obligations of any
type.
However, he had a very
captivating personality; he had real class, breeding, and a
fabulous refinement. He had married a woman who was part of
“two hundred families” and never exploded, according to
his friends. He expressed himself very well. Since he had left
school at 13 years old to support his mother, he always had a
geography, history, or philosophy book in his drawer…he had
studied everything, he knew about everything, and wanted to know
everything. Life around him was enchanting, he was tender,
cheerful, whimsical, he also had mood swings…he had great
presence even if he got lost in his dreams and musical creations
from time to time.
ND: He was a serious
worker.
YP: A journalist once wrote that his renown would
endure thanks “to the work he did at night so that he could
make music all day…” I think that only the spontaneity
and speed with which he wrote can explain his expansive work
despite his death at an early age.
From 9 in the morning he was
at his lectern on Thursdays and Saturdays for rehearsals at the
Orchestre du Conservatoire, the night before he would conduct an
opera late into the evening, he did his class at the Conservatoire,
plus auditions, his reading as Director of music at the Opera, and
then often the codirector’s… he was a force of nature
and that required a level of organization that you’d never
believe you’d see in your wildest dreams…he was known
as “compere” but he was viewed as a wise
administrator.
ND: How was he viewed by the audience of the
Opera?
YP: He had a lot of influence over his audience,
which is the privilege of great conductors.
Because he was a handsome man and conducted
himself with masterful authority, he aroused many devoted admirers
among the female audience. He would lock himself in his dressing
room to escape frenzied admirers from whom he received letters
which went unopened but it was a joy to see all the life around him
with his “screw balls” ready to win him over! At home,
we tried to protect him from intruders, cadgers, or administrators
but he was always there for his
friends.
ND: Did you see him
composing?
YP: That was one of the fascinating things of my
life! Seated in front of these huge staves at his desk for many
hours straight, he was very clean, meticulous, without making any
erasures, his manuscripts are proof of it. Sometimes he’d go
to the piano and play a few bars and then sit down again. In short,
he composed calmly, his mind rested and lucid. He wrote so easily
that he was always ready to offer a little bit of support to his
students or his colleagues at the Conservatoire to those who asked
for it.
ND: What were the circumstances surrounding his
death?
YP: He ate too much! At that time, we barely paid
attention to the food that we ate, and too, he did not take any
control over his health. At 60 years old, he says to my
mother-in-law: “I feel like I’m 20.” He felt like
he was in good shape and attended the incredible triumph of his
ballet LE CHEVALIER ET LA DEMOISELLE at the Opera. The day after
the show, he composed all night just like always, and the piano
stopped…At 7 in the morning, his wife opened the door with
that knowing sense that women in love possess…he looked at
his hands and he died. An aneurismal rupture at the age of only 62.
He had an exhausting job, you know, being the director of the
orchestra requires considerable physical effort. “Life is so
short,” Philippe Gaubert loved to say. He only loved music
and I think the angels welcomed him to
heaven.
It is, however, so sad that
the evening before his death Serg Lifar behaved like a real boor
regarding the considerable success of their ballet. After the first
ballet of Alexander the Great, Serge had asked
“Parrain” to write the music for a new ballet for him.
Too, he lived at the house under Philippe Gaubert’s heels.
Everyone was nice to Serge Lifar, my mother-in-law was his darling,
I was his fiancée, he acted like a real “boot licker: (to put
it nicely) for months. He even rented a carriage for Philippe
during the Occupation to take him to dinner Chez Drouant…in
short, that was the insanity of love. The ballet was quite
successful and at the many interviews that he gave, he completely
failed to mention the name of the composer: Gaubert. He had
invented the name “choreo-author” letting people think
that he too was the author of the music. As far as I know, Philippe
Gaubert had one of these articles telling of the success of the
“Lifar Ballet” in his hands the night before his death
and that kept him from sleeping all
night…
Since it was well known that
he was involved, Lifar was hated at the Opera and the musicians
refused to play for the rehearsals of the ballet. It was also the
only time that Philippe Gaubert’s wife intervened in her
husband’s public life when she begged the musicians to play
despite all of that because the work was
sublime.
They finally accepted that
Serge Lifar would dance. “It
was fitting and proper that his final joy was given to him in the
theater that he held most dear, by the enormous success of
“Chevalier” which he had written, put on with creative
enthusiasm, with the fire of youth and the vigor of maturity.
Philippe Gaubert went out in a triumph.” Jacques
Rouche.
ND: What were the repercussions of his death in
the artistic world?
YP:
That was astonishing. He was slated to live to be a hundred! In my
book, you can read all the letters of condolence from Honneger,
Valery, Saint-Saens, Cortot, Thibaud, of course, Georges Hue, and I
forgot who else. The national press paid homage to him. You know, whatever the horror
for all that this premature departure caused, we have to all tell
ourselves that the progress in medicine might have rescued this man
from death but left him diminished, paralyzed maybe, without the
life force which characterized him.
ND: After his death, was his music still
played?
YP: Yes, a great deal, all over France for several
years. Today, the money that I am paid as author, which comes from
all over the whole world, attests to the vitality of
“Parrain’s” music in the music world, especially
in Scandinavia and Japan. One of his last works was LE CONCERT IN F
that was just edited, today, in fact, highlights an important
soloist part for each musician in the orchestra. Philippe Gaubert
had dedicated that work “in homage and thanks to my
musicians.” Next September, the same great orchestra of
Luxembourg will record LE CHEVALIER ET LA DEMOISELLE, directed by
Marc Soustrot, including the “pas de deux” that
Schwartz and Lifar danced. Philippe Gaubert was played everywhere
all his life. He was invited to direct his works and those of some
others in Germany, Belgium, Romania, Spain, and I forget where
else, but he had a great career in foreign countries. The Germans
especially, were crazy about Philippe Gaubert, which he
didn’t like. At the beginning of the Occupation, Hitler had
given the order to be kind to key figures in countries that they
controlled. So, Philippe didn’t have problems with the
Germans in 1940, but he did not want them to come into his dressing
room, because, he said, “I don’t like kicks in the
ass.” Upon his death, the Germans sent a letter to my
mother-in-law informing her that they wouldn’t come to his
national funeral because: “We know that Monsieur Gaubert
hated us.” After his death, the Germans were always
interested in Philippe Gaubert and they went to his house regularly
to see his piano and the place where Philippe lived daily, and in
complete simplicity.
ND: How would you qualify the character of
Philippe Gaubert’s music?
YP: His music reflects his personality perfectly.
There is a duality in his works: sometimes violent, strong,
powerful, and also very majestic all while expressing feminine and
romantic sensitivity, with a great
softness.
